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	<title>Comments on: The Church’s Recent Handling of Mountain Meadows: A Step in a New Direction?</title>
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	<link>http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/</link>
	<description>Some Mormons, some former Mormons, and some in between discuss whatever they feel like in the Mormon realm. They try to keep judgementalism at a minimum.</description>
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		<title>By: stevem83</title>
		<link>http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-904</link>
		<dc:creator>stevem83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 13:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-904</guid>
		<description>Even if Elder Eyring&#039;s statement was not technically an apology to begin with, Tuttle&#039;s remarks detract from what &lt;i&gt;was&lt;/i&gt; said, if you ask me.

Should we expect an apology? I think it can be argued either way. Nobody in the modern Church had anything to do with the massacre, but then, it&#039;s not like Eyring was expressing &quot;profound regret&quot; for the actions of some entirely disconnected third party, like Nazi Germany in the Holocaust--he was speaking as a representative of the people and the institution of which the MMM perpetrators were members. I got the impression that the Church was accepting at least some ownership of he massacre, which I feel is appropriate. As successors to the perpetrators and inheritors of their religion, would it be inappropriate to apologize on their behalf and try to make amends for what they did? I don&#039;t think so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if Elder Eyring&#8217;s statement was not technically an apology to begin with, Tuttle&#8217;s remarks detract from what <i>was</i> said, if you ask me.</p>
<p>Should we expect an apology? I think it can be argued either way. Nobody in the modern Church had anything to do with the massacre, but then, it&#8217;s not like Eyring was expressing &#8220;profound regret&#8221; for the actions of some entirely disconnected third party, like Nazi Germany in the Holocaust&#8211;he was speaking as a representative of the people and the institution of which the MMM perpetrators were members. I got the impression that the Church was accepting at least some ownership of he massacre, which I feel is appropriate. As successors to the perpetrators and inheritors of their religion, would it be inappropriate to apologize on their behalf and try to make amends for what they did? I don&#8217;t think so.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen M (Ethesis)</title>
		<link>http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen M (Ethesis)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Sep 2007 01:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-903</guid>
		<description>Well, I surely regret things that others have done, even if I wasn&#039;t responsible for them.  In such a case, is it really appropriate to call my statements apologies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I surely regret things that others have done, even if I wasn&#8217;t responsible for them.  In such a case, is it really appropriate to call my statements apologies?</p>
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		<title>By: David Grua</title>
		<link>http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator>David Grua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-902</guid>
		<description>Steve--I very much agree that we should see recent developments in the Church&#039;s stance toward its past as a positive. Although Tuttle&#039;s unfortunate remarks do serve to negate in the minds of some this positive progress, I think that it&#039;s just as much Foy&#039;s fault as Tuttle&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve&#8211;I very much agree that we should see recent developments in the Church&#8217;s stance toward its past as a positive. Although Tuttle&#8217;s unfortunate remarks do serve to negate in the minds of some this positive progress, I think that it&#8217;s just as much Foy&#8217;s fault as Tuttle&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: stevem83</title>
		<link>http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>stevem83</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:26:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-901</guid>
		<description>Matt W,

Are we members of the same church? While the Church&#039;s recent progress in the area of the depiction of its history may not be monumental, I do think it is at least a subtle change of course. These days, I sense more of a desire to address popular concerns rather than ignore them or brush them off as unfounded or anti-Mormon criticisms.

Ann,

I hadn&#039;t read Tuttle&#039;s remarks. However, I think his &quot;clarification&quot; overstepped his bounds as church spokesman, and I don&#039;t think we should interpret it as being representative of &quot;official&quot; Church sentiment. That having been said, I do think that Eyring intentionally did not use words like &quot;apology&quot; or &quot;sorry.&quot; While his expression of &quot;profound remorse&quot; may have been late-coming (150 years late, if you&#039;re counting), and it didn&#039;t go as far as I think they should have (why can&#039;t we just say sorry?), I&#039;m glad to see &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; progress.

Traditionally, religious organizations haven&#039;t been very good at objectiveness or straightforwardness, particularly with regard to science, history, and other disciplines that may conflict with and have the potential to undermine their truth claims and authority. Affronts to truth claims and calls for reform are often met with a conservative, fundamentalist backlash. The LDS Church isn&#039;t unique in this respect. But if it wants to maintain its credibility and appeal to people in the mainstream of society, it will have to adapt itself and its message, and it will have to address their concerns. I see it trying to do this, and I think it&#039;s a good sign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt W,</p>
<p>Are we members of the same church? While the Church&#8217;s recent progress in the area of the depiction of its history may not be monumental, I do think it is at least a subtle change of course. These days, I sense more of a desire to address popular concerns rather than ignore them or brush them off as unfounded or anti-Mormon criticisms.</p>
<p>Ann,</p>
<p>I hadn&#8217;t read Tuttle&#8217;s remarks. However, I think his &#8220;clarification&#8221; overstepped his bounds as church spokesman, and I don&#8217;t think we should interpret it as being representative of &#8220;official&#8221; Church sentiment. That having been said, I do think that Eyring intentionally did not use words like &#8220;apology&#8221; or &#8220;sorry.&#8221; While his expression of &#8220;profound remorse&#8221; may have been late-coming (150 years late, if you&#8217;re counting), and it didn&#8217;t go as far as I think they should have (why can&#8217;t we just say sorry?), I&#8217;m glad to see <i>some</i> progress.</p>
<p>Traditionally, religious organizations haven&#8217;t been very good at objectiveness or straightforwardness, particularly with regard to science, history, and other disciplines that may conflict with and have the potential to undermine their truth claims and authority. Affronts to truth claims and calls for reform are often met with a conservative, fundamentalist backlash. The LDS Church isn&#8217;t unique in this respect. But if it wants to maintain its credibility and appeal to people in the mainstream of society, it will have to adapt itself and its message, and it will have to address their concerns. I see it trying to do this, and I think it&#8217;s a good sign.</p>
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		<title>By: Ann</title>
		<link>http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator>Ann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-900</guid>
		<description>AP reporter Paul Foy states &quot;Church leaders were adamant that the statement should not be construed as an apology. &quot;We don&#039;t use the word &#039;apology.&#039; We used &#039;profound regret,&#039;&quot; church spokesman Mark Tuttle told the Associated Press.&quot;

Until I read that statement, I agreed with you completely.  But now it just seems like a backhanded sop.  Mr. Tuttle stated in a private e-mail (cited over at &lt;a href=&quot;http://mormonwasp.wordpress.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mormon Wasp&lt;/a&gt;) that he was just trying to clarify Elder Eyring&#039;s statement.  The effect, IMO, was to dismantle it.

While I agree that the church has opened up a lot, I don&#039;t give them a lot of credit for doing so.  The Truth Is Out There, and if they don&#039;t tell it, others will.  They&#039;re way behind the curve on putting out accurate history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AP reporter Paul Foy states &#8220;Church leaders were adamant that the statement should not be construed as an apology. &#8220;We don&#8217;t use the word &#8216;apology.&#8217; We used &#8216;profound regret,&#8217;&#8221; church spokesman Mark Tuttle told the Associated Press.&#8221;</p>
<p>Until I read that statement, I agreed with you completely.  But now it just seems like a backhanded sop.  Mr. Tuttle stated in a private e-mail (cited over at <a href="http://mormonwasp.wordpress.com" rel="nofollow">Mormon Wasp</a>) that he was just trying to clarify Elder Eyring&#8217;s statement.  The effect, IMO, was to dismantle it.</p>
<p>While I agree that the church has opened up a lot, I don&#8217;t give them a lot of credit for doing so.  The Truth Is Out There, and if they don&#8217;t tell it, others will.  They&#8217;re way behind the curve on putting out accurate history.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt W.</title>
		<link>http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-899</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:48:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vsom.wordpress.com/2007/09/14/the-church%e2%80%99s-recent-handling-of-mountain-meadows-a-step-in-a-new-direction/#comment-899</guid>
		<description>No offense, but It irritates me that evey time the church does something good, we ask &quot;is this a new direction?&quot;

In my opinion, as a member of 9 years, the church has been going in this same direction every moment I&#039;ve been a member of it (yes I know it&#039;s jsut 9 years, but still)

Now I&#039;ll go back and acutally read your post. (I&#039;m sucha jerk)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No offense, but It irritates me that evey time the church does something good, we ask &#8220;is this a new direction?&#8221;</p>
<p>In my opinion, as a member of 9 years, the church has been going in this same direction every moment I&#8217;ve been a member of it (yes I know it&#8217;s jsut 9 years, but still)</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ll go back and acutally read your post. (I&#8217;m sucha jerk)</p>
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